Orthodoxy

CARM can't handle the truth.. This is a copy of a recent post I made on the CARM forums which was deleted by the moderation for some undisclosed reason.. but I see it just really amounts to censorship on the part of CARM against the truth..

Here's the original Post.

"Also, I would like to address the concept of Orthodoxy.. "Right belief" . There was NO orthodoxy enforced with Jesus and his disciples. Orthodoxy didn't exist prior to it's emergence in the late Late 4th to 5th Centuries under Roman Emperor. Virtually all major denominations of Christianity trace back historically to that period. Mormonism, does NOT follow traditional Orthodoxy, surprise surprise.. And in fact most of those comments you cited back a while ago were charges against the Orthodoxy. 

So is Orthodoxy really the "Right belief".. If you think about it carefully, it has nothing to do with being "Right".. it has to do with being "Politically Correct". Orthodoxy was set up as a control over how people would behave in the emerging Roman Theocratic Empire. It's a form of MIND Control that was implemented. The Orthodoxy set up what writings would be considered scripture, what teachings were permissible to a largely illiterate populace. The edict of Thessalonica made it treason against the Emperor and Empire to disagree with the emerging dogma. 

Think about that carefully will you.. How many here cry "Cult" to any group that attempt to brainwash people into a belief system?.. Yet this is EXACTLY what the Orthodoxy was doing on a Empire level and would continue for over a thousand years. Free thinking, i.e not believing in the dogma authorized by the Church and it's overseers was often publishable by Torture and death.. For all the cries about how Christians were persecuted by the Romans in the early first centuries.. Such was pale in comparison to the persecution inflicted on Christians by other Christian through Orthodoxy. Calvinism embraced this extreme view, and was dished out at the Synod of Dort against the Arminianists and the underpinning of the Witch hunts of Europe in which some estimates put as much as 100,000 people were murdered in the name of Christ. And this say's nothing about the horror met out on non-Christians through the inquisitions and crusades in the name of Christ. 

So I ask you to ponder.. Is "Orthodoxy" Christ's way.. or was it the Roman Emperors way? Then ask yourself, how much of what you believe about Christ and Christianity was fed to you by the Orthodoxy that still remains.

Anti-Mormons who are they?

In another post I described the meaning of Anti-Mormon.. simply put someone engaged in Anti-Mormonism, which is the participation in act that are against Mormonism.  But who are these people and where do they come from?

First of all we need to understand there are different types of Anti-Mormons.   I break these down into three groups..

1. Political
2. Ideological
3. Emotional

Politics

The first group represented the historical Anti-Mormon.  When Mormonism was getting established in the early 19th Century, in the western frontiers of America, which at that time was what we call the Midwest..   Mormons were a very communal society,  And they would establish enclaves and settlements that were predominantly Mormon.   Also, early Mormons tended to vote in concert with one another..sometimes called voting in Block.

 As with most religious conflicts in the world the conflict is not about religion at all, but about politics and control of the land.   Such would became the case with the Mormons in the Midwest. As they founded communities like Nauvoo, Illinois and places in Missouri there became political contentions.  Local non-Mormons began to fear the political strength the Mormons were influencing in the area and sought to chase them out of the territory.   Since the LDS settlers voted in block and were becoming numerous, these opponents employed less honorable means of trying to rid the area of Mormon influence.. And such was the birth of Anti-Mormon propaganda, militias and even reaching the heights of a Governor ordered extermination, which ultimately led to the murder of Joseph Smith and the LDS moving west and settling in the Salt Lake Valley.

Ideological foes

The second group of Anti-Mormons comes from an ideological bent, mainly Calvinism.  In the mid 16th century there rose a Protestant Reformer named John Calvin, who's views represented a very extreme expression of Augustinian doctrine.  As Calvin rose to influence Geneva would become a Calvinist theocracy, to the point that all need to conform to Calvinism or suffer the consequences.  The execution of Michael Servetus 1553 set the stage of what was to follow.

In the late 16th to early 17th Century there arose a Dutch reformer named Jacobus Arminius
 who's beliefs challenged those of Calvinism, primarily on the role of free agency and works.  Calvinist TULIP doctrines are such the ideology asserts the Man has no free will and God predestines who he will save, thus there is nothing anyone can do to change that fate.   Arminius disagreed.  This clash of ideas came to a head in the Synod of Dort  1618-1619 where after much contenteous debate the Calvinists won the politics of the day and sought purge the heresy of Arminianism from the land. Following the synod Arminists we're imprisoned, beheaded and for the most chased from the land.  Yet, Arminianism didn't die that day, it fled to safer grounds England and ultimately America.  Today Arminianism is found in denomination such as the Methodist faith, and today represents that view held by most Evangelicals in America.

Now Mormonism is rooted in Arminiansim.. Joseph Smith stated he was leaning to join the Methodist congregation, and Brigham Young was a former Methodist Minister.  So no surpise that much of the doctrines found in Mormonism closely resemble those of Arminianism, especially on the topic of Salvation and the role of free will and works.  Calvinism then represent the ideological antithesis of Mormonism and has a long rooted history dating back to the Synod of Dort, of being an ideological foe. Thus we can see that MOST Anti-Mormon web sites and Ministries such as CARM are actually hosted by Mormonisms ideological nemesis the Calvinists.

The emotives

The third group of Anti-Mormons are the emotive ones.. Usually it's this group that are the most vocal. They are often a LDS who for one reason or the other has left the LDS Faith, but can't leave it alone.  Quite often this group knows very little of their former faith and what it actually teaches.  Instead their experience of the LDS faith is usually shaped by some unrealized expectation.  Usually involving someone who was close to them and who's failure to meet expectations has left a negative impression on the now ex-Mormon antagonist.

The enemy of my enemy is my friend.

 As we see there are many forms of Anti-Mormons, but interestingly the catch phrase of 'my enemies enemy is my friend' has never been more true than in the circles of Anti-Mormonism.   Thus we see a convergence in Ministries like CARM where ex-Mormons who have a emotive bent against the LDS faith team up with Calvinists and their ideological bent.. Even though many of these ex-Mormons if ever questioned on whether or not they would agree with the TULIP Doctrines of Calvinism, would not.   Often they don't even understand the bedfellows they have embraced.

Who is Matt Slick

Matt Slick is the proprietor of CARM.  Christian Apologetics Research Ministry.   Matt is also a TULIP Calvinist and hosts another Website called "Calvinist's corner"

Matt Slick is one of the more prominent Anti-Mormons on the web these days.. He hosts a radio program, and although his site and radio program are not exclusively against Mormonism.. Anti-Mormonism seems to be prevalent in the majority of it.  His testimony which he publishes also bears this out as for one of the very reasons for starting CARM was based upon his encounter with other Anti-Mormons, namely Jerry and Marian Bodine.

He states

Then, one night at one of the many Bible studies I was attending, someone read something to me that would have a profound impact on my life. 

"God is in the still small voice. In all these affidavits, indictments, it is all of the devil--all corruption. Come on! ye prosecutors! ye false swearers! All hell, boil over! Ye burning mountains, roll down your lava! for I will come out on the top at last. I have more to boast of than ever any man had. I am the only man that has ever been able to keep a whole church together since the days of Adam. A large majority of the whole have stood by me. Neither Paul, John, Peter, nor Jesus ever did it. I boast that no man ever did such a work as I. The followers of Jesus ran away from Him; but the Latter-day Saints never ran away from me yet..." (Joseph Smith from the Mormon book, History of the Church Vol. 6, pp. 408-409) 

This quote angered me terribly. I couldn't believe that anyone would be so arrogant as to boast he had done more to keep a church together than even Jesus had. To me, this was unfathomable and blasphemous. When I found out that the founder of Mormonism had uttered that boast, I had to find out who this person was and what he stood for. After all, I erringly thought, Mormons were Christians and that quote from its founder just didn't make sense. That is when I began attending a Bible study taught by Jerry and Marian Bodine who were then working with Walter Martin, the original Bible Answerman on the Radio. The Bodines and I became friends and I studied with them for years and my interest in cults, apologetics, and doctrine exploded. 

Later, a friend of mine and I began a swap-meet ministry. Every Saturday, for 2 1/2 years, we would set up a booth and pass out gospel literature as well as information that exposed the cults, evolution, the New Age, etc. Needless to say, we had lots of interesting discussions with people and I can honestly declare that it was there at the swap-meet that I learned the most about defending God's word. 

Next came a year-long phone ministry where my new roommate and I put an ad in a local publication. It said, "Learn the truth about Mormonism, Jehovah's Witnesses, Christian Science, and Unity. Call (phone number). We received a great many calls and were able to help many people find the truth in Jesus. This was followed by a year of beach evangelism and door-to-door canvassing passing out Christian tracts. Soon afterwards I began to teach Bible studies and various classes on evangelism, Christian doctrine, and the cults at local churches. I have been studying and defending the truth ever since.  So far, it has been for more than 20 years now.

Now I too took a class taught by Marian Bodine.  She epitomizes the typical Anti-Mormon.  It was in and after her class that I met with her personally and had her tell me her story as to what caused her to begin her ministry.. I will attempt to relay that story.. It's been a few years, but the story was quite profound and has left an impression that last to this very day.. Understand also, this story is comming from the POV of Marian Bodine.

Marian told me she and her husband lived in Southern California,  Mission Viejo I recall, they were your typical non-denominational Christians and were not strong church goers.. They had a daughter who according to Marian, fell in love with a return LDS missionary.. Her daughter joined the LDS faith, married this return missionary and moved to Salt Lake City.    Then after couple of years, according to Marian, the marriage went on the rocks and allegedly her daughter divorced because her husband was a spouse abuser.. (Now this is from the point of view of the Mother in law, no independent collaboration of such accusation has ever been presented).

Her daughter remained in the LDS Church and despite Marian asking her daughter to come back to California after the divorce but she refused..  And then here's where the story get's interesting.   Marian then tells me he daughter married her ex-husbands father, who she said ultimately proved to be just like his son and the daughter divorced again.    It was during this second Marriage and divorce that Jerry and Marian moved to Salt Lake city and set up an Anti-Mormon ministry.

It was these people who it appears by Matt Slicks testimony directly influenced his form of Apologetic, which demonstratively has pronounced Anti-Mormon bent.