Showing posts with label Anti-Mormon. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Anti-Mormon. Show all posts

Tuesday, January 17, 2017

My precious

In a recent discussion on CARM with the poster Bonnie on the admonishment of Luck 6:31 and the negativity of Anti-Mormonism. She indicated her devotion to the Anti-Mormonism and said simply

  "I will not give up my Anti-Mormonism".

Not withstanding that it strange that she seems to take ownership of Anti-Mormonism.   Quite repeatedly she and others on CARM make the claim that they ARE anti-Mormonism.  I think her comment quite telling of an obsessive behavior.

To be clear our discussion revolved around the admonishment of Christ - 'Do unto others what you would want them to do you." Luke 6:31   It is one of the hallmark teachings of Christians everywhere..

 I asked Bonnie, if she would advocate people attacking and misrepresenting her faith which is Lutheran (LCMS)..  The obvious answer is "No, she would not advocate that at all"..  simply put to say otherwise would be duplicity of mind.. A kingdom divided against itself, and yet despite he readily saying she would not want people misrepresenting and attacking her faith.. She persists in attacking and misrepresenting the faith of others namely, the LDS faith,.  

Now Jesus never attacked other faiths, instead what he was most vocal and outspoken about was Hypocrisy in his own faith.   And even when anti-Mormon is confronted with this apparently hypocrisy of behavior on her part.. she doubles down and declares she will not give up her anti-Mormonism.

I see this as a classic example of the almost drug like addiction that overcomes Anti-Mormons.  It's as if parts of their mental capacity has been short circuited and they can no longer control themselves.  They are addicted in a way.. to their 'Precious" anti-Mormonism.

Sunday, November 1, 2015

Notable Characters

Catherine Aurelia - Probably one of the most vile and contentions anti-Mormons on CARM and other sites where she uses the name Krusader..  Catherine (Carol)  devotes her life it seems to daily propagating some of the most voracious and baseless claims against the LDS Faith.        
She is a social worker and her favorite themes generally involve sex and money, as almost every post she makes she makes accusations that Joseph Smith was a Pedophile, sexual predator..and the LDS Church steals money etc..



BrianH - Right up there next to Catherine Aurelia.  Allegedly worked as a forensic investigator, but seemingly retired now.   His posts are long winded, and don't really say much other than laced with childish invective directed at LDS.  His MO is typical of a lot of ardent Anti-Mormons.. Makes fallacious self fulling arguments, and when his argument fails, he simply moves the goal posts..  Famous for denying his questions are answered when they have been.. He considered any answer that doesn't play script and agenda a non-answer..   As stated his long winded and often doesn't take time to think about what he is actually
saying.. He has made claims he doesn't believe in God (Which may possibility be true) , or that electrons have no mass are are not matter. etc.

Like many Anti-Mormons, he has never read the Book of Mormon and has little actual knowledge of the faith.




Bonnie.  65 year old in Lutheran from Georgia, Never read the book of Mormon and refuses to do so.. Spends most of her time canvasing anti-Mormon propaganda,  Her favorite source is Lynn Wilder.

She continually denies misrepresenting LDS beliefs, all while doing so..  One of the more notable quotes by her.. "I don't care about the indented meaning, I'm talking about the UN-intended meaning."



JamesOne5

Thursday, August 28, 2014

CARM Double Standards.

CARM Rules and their duplicitous and hypocritical double standards.

CARM Posts the following RULE regarding links to non-Carm sites on their discussion forum
RULE 29:
Links:
(a) No links permitted in the chatroom but to CARM articles or forum discussions. Must ask mod permission to post links in chatroom. 
(b) Forums, do not post links to offensive material--porno or websites, no blogs (with discussion content no FB pages or articles with comments/discussion), no discussion forums, no websites that are discussing the CARM board participants by user name in a negative manner, etc. Do not post links to graphic pictures. You may post a link only if it is pertaining to the topic as reference to quotes in the topic discussed but not for advertisement or promotional purposes. Can only make two links to other websites per discussion thread, again, no blogs/articles/links (with discussion content), no discussion forums, (no anti-Christian links), no attacks on board posters, no promoting of sin or attacks on Christianity and Bible); may link only to official religion websites--that includes signature/profile links. Super members may link to their "G" rated businesses but not to unofficial religious websites or anti-Christian websites. Links to LDS, RCC, JW are permitted if they are links to their official teaching websites only. Users may post unlimited number of links to CARM papers or CARM forum posts for reference.
Now you would expect that if CARM was a true Christian website, it would Take care be even handed in its application of it's rules, and enforce them evenly without bias.

In a recent dialog with a Anti-Mormon poster who proceeded to make links to Other Anti-Mormon websites..  I challenged them on the Rule 29(b) where it asserts links may be only to Official Religion sites, and the following post of guidance came down from CARM admin Diane S

Christian websites permitted or Christians may post links that are not anti-christian. It is RC or LDS, JW that must only post links to official websites....Diane S (Carm Admin)

Now to say this is duplicitous and double standard is an understatement.  For what CARM Admin is telling us here is that if you are an Anti-Mormon poster you may make post links to any sort of web sites even belligerent Anti-Mormon propaganda sites so long as they are not Anti-Christian, with Christian being that which conforms to the CARM Admin point of view.. (Which is very narrow Calvinist view) .
  
Meanwhile other posters such as Roman Catholics, Jehovah Witnesses or Latter Day Saints are forbidden from being allowed the same privilege.

So take note.. CARM Forums are a heavily BIASED Anti-Mormon, Anti-Catholic and Anti-Anything that doesn't fit the narrow minded imagination of Matt Slick's over the top Calvinist ideology.

Thursday, January 2, 2014

Anti-Mormon rules for Christian Apologetics



When one spends much time on CARM, it becomes very much apparent that the purveyors and supporters proclaim to be Christian, but behave in ways that are anything but Christian.   They have strict rules at CARM regarding making forum Posts which they believe attack Christianity.. such as:

"This is a Christian website and you may not post words in mockery of Christian beliefs, or terms offensive in descriptions of our Lord God. You may certainly challenge Christian teaching, but do so respectfully."

 And yet they do not restrict themselves or their proponents form making outlandish attacks on all other beliefs even those which are Christian beliefs, but just not Christian according to CARMs own self appointed definition of Christianity, and thus they label them as 'cults' and 'heresies' 

The rules also state :

"This is a Christian website, if you want to promote liberal propaganda, take it elsewhere. Christians on the forums permitted their free ideas and opinions on social issues and will not have to tolerate insults, divisive comments from the more liberal posters."

Did you catch that?  Christian (only those whom CARM deems Christian) are permitted for express their ideas 'freely'.. even those ideas mean demeaning the beliefs of others. Recently  my calling attention to a libelous claim by CARM poster has resulted in my suspension from CARM.. As one can see CARM forums and it's proprietor are bigoted hypocrites with an modus operandi of shooting the messenger if CARM doesn't like the message.

Monday, September 9, 2013

Anti-Mormons who are they?

In another post I described the meaning of Anti-Mormon.. simply put someone engaged in Anti-Mormonism, which is the participation in act that are against Mormonism.  But who are these people and where do they come from?

First of all we need to understand there are different types of Anti-Mormons.   I break these down into three groups..


  1. Political
  2. Ideological
  3. Emotional

Politics

The first group represented the historical Anti-Mormon.  When Mormonism was getting established in the early 19th Century, in the western frontiers of America, which at that time was what we call the Midwest..   Mormons were a very communal society,  And they would establish enclaves and settlements that were predominantly Mormon.   Also, early Mormons tended to vote in concert with one another..sometimes called voting in Block.

 As with most religious conflicts in the world the conflict is not about religion at all, but about politics and control of the land.   Such would became the case with the Mormons in the Midwest. As they founded communities like Nauvoo, Illinois and places in Missouri there became political contentions.  Local non-Mormons began to fear the political strength the Mormons were influencing in the area and sought to chase them out of the territory.   Since the LDS settlers voted in block and were becoming numerous, these opponents employed less honorable means of trying to rid the area of Mormon influence.. And such was the birth of Anti-Mormon propaganda, militias and even reaching the heights of a Governor ordered extermination, which ultimately led to the murder of Joseph Smith and the LDS moving west and settling in the Salt Lake Valley.

Ideological foes

The second group of Anti-Mormons comes from an ideological bent, mainly Calvinism.  In the mid 16th century there rose a Protestant Reformer named John Calvin, who's views represented a very extreme expression of Augustinian doctrine.  As Calvin rose to influence Geneva would become a Calvinist theocracy, to the point that all need to conform to Calvinism or suffer the consequences.  The execution of Michael Servetus 1553 set the stage of what was to follow.

In the late 16th to early 17th Century there arose a Dutch reformer named Jacobus Arminius
 who's beliefs challenged those of Calvinism, primarily on the role of free agency and works.  Calvinist TULIP doctrines are such the ideology asserts the Man has no free will and God predestines who he will save, thus there is nothing anyone can do to change that fate.   Arminius disagreed.  This clash of ideas came to a head in the Synod of Dort  1618-1619 where after much contenteous debate the Calvinists won the politics of the day and sought purge the heresy of Arminianism from the land. Following the synod Arminists we're imprisoned, beheaded and for the most chased from the land.  Yet, Arminianism didn't die that day, it fled to safer grounds England and ultimately America.  Today Arminianism is found in denomination such as the Methodist faith, and today represents that view held by most Evangelicals in America.

Now Mormonism is rooted in Arminiansim.. Joseph Smith stated he was leaning to join the Methodist congregation, and Brigham Young was a former Methodist Minister.  So no surpise that much of the doctrines found in Mormonism closely resemble those of Arminianism, especially on the topic of Salvation and the role of free will and works.  Calvinism then represent the ideological antithesis of Mormonism and has a long rooted history dating back to the Synod of Dort, of being an ideological foe. Thus we can see that MOST Anti-Mormon web sites and Ministries such as CARM are actually hosted by Mormonisms ideological nemesis the Calvinists.

The emotives

The third group of Anti-Mormons are the emotive ones.. Usually it's this group that are the most vocal. They are often a LDS who for one reason or the other has left the LDS Faith, but can't leave it alone.  Quite often this group knows very little of their former faith and what it actually teaches.  Instead their experience of the LDS faith is usually shaped by some unrealized expectation.  Usually involving someone who was close to them and who's failure to meet expectations has left a negative impression on the now ex-Mormon antagonist.


The enemy of my enemy is my friend.

 As we see there are many forms of Anti-Mormons, but interestingly the catch phrase of 'my enemies enemy is my friend' has never been more true than in the circles of Anti-Mormonism.   Thus we see a convergence in Ministries like CARM where ex-Mormons who have a emotive bent against the LDS faith team up with Calvinists and their ideological bent.. Even though many of these ex-Mormons if ever questioned on whether or not they would agree with the TULIP Doctrines of Calvinism, would not.   Often they don't even understand the bedfellows they have embraced.

Wednesday, September 4, 2013

Who is Matt Slick

Matt Slick is the proprietor of CARM.  Christian Apologetics Research Ministry.   Matt is also a TULIP Calvinist and hosts another Website called "Calvinist's corner"

Matt Slick is one of the more prominent Anti-Mormons on the web these days.. He hosts a radio program, and although his site and radio program are not exclusively against Mormonism.. Anti-Mormonism seems to be prevalent in the majority of it.  His testimony which he publishes also bears this out as for one of the very reasons for starting CARM was based upon his encounter with other Anti-Mormons, namely Jerry and Marian Bodine.

He states

Then, one night at one of the many Bible studies I was attending, someone read something to me that would have a profound impact on my life. 
"God is in the still small voice. In all these affidavits, indictments, it is all of the devil--all corruption. Come on! ye prosecutors! ye false swearers! All hell, boil over! Ye burning mountains, roll down your lava! for I will come out on the top at last. I have more to boast of than ever any man had. I am the only man that has ever been able to keep a whole church together since the days of Adam. A large majority of the whole have stood by me. Neither Paul, John, Peter, nor Jesus ever did it. I boast that no man ever did such a work as I. The followers of Jesus ran away from Him; but the Latter-day Saints never ran away from me yet..." (Joseph Smith from the Mormon book, History of the Church Vol. 6, pp. 408-409) 
This quote angered me terribly. I couldn't believe that anyone would be so arrogant as to boast he had done more to keep a church together than even Jesus had. To me, this was unfathomable and blasphemous. When I found out that the founder of Mormonism had uttered that boast, I had to find out who this person was and what he stood for. After all, I erringly thought, Mormons were Christians and that quote from its founder just didn't make sense. That is when I began attending a Bible study taught by Jerry and Marian Bodine who were then working with Walter Martin, the original Bible Answerman on the Radio. The Bodines and I became friends and I studied with them for years and my interest in cults, apologetics, and doctrine exploded. 
Later, a friend of mine and I began a swap-meet ministry. Every Saturday, for 2 1/2 years, we would set up a booth and pass out gospel literature as well as information that exposed the cults, evolution, the New Age, etc. Needless to say, we had lots of interesting discussions with people and I can honestly declare that it was there at the swap-meet that I learned the most about defending God's word. 
Next came a year-long phone ministry where my new roommate and I put an ad in a local publication. It said, "Learn the truth about Mormonism, Jehovah's Witnesses, Christian Science, and Unity. Call (phone number). We received a great many calls and were able to help many people find the truth in Jesus. This was followed by a year of beach evangelism and door-to-door canvassing passing out Christian tracts. Soon afterwards I began to teach Bible studies and various classes on evangelism, Christian doctrine, and the cults at local churches. I have been studying and defending the truth ever since.  So far, it has been for more than 20 years now.

Now I too took a class taught by Marian Bodine.  She epitomizes the typical Anti-Mormon.  It was in and after her class that I met with her personally and had her tell me her story as to what caused her to begin her ministry.. I will attempt to relay that story.. It's been a few years, but the story was quite profound and has left an impression that last to this very day.. Understand also, this story is comming from the POV of Marian Bodine.

Marian told me she and her husband lived in Southern California,  Mission Viejo I recall, they were your typical non-denominational Christians and were not strong church goers.. They had a daughter who according to Marian, fell in love with a return LDS missionary.. Her daughter joined the LDS faith, married this return missionary and moved to Salt Lake City.    Then after couple of years, according to Marian, the marriage went on the rocks and allegedly her daughter divorced because her husband was a spouse abuser.. (Now this is from the point of view of the Mother in law, no independent collaboration of such accusation has ever been presented).

Her daughter remained in the LDS Church and despite Marian asking her daughter to come back to California after the divorce but she refused..  And then here's where the story get's interesting.   Marian then tells me he daughter married her ex-husbands father, who she said ultimately proved to be just like his son and the daughter divorced again.    It was during this second Marriage and divorce that Jerry and Marian moved to Salt Lake city and set up an Anti-Mormon ministry.

It was these people who it appears by Matt Slicks testimony directly influenced his form of Apologetic, which demonstratively has pronounced Anti-Mormon bent.

Monday, September 3, 2012

I'm not an Anti-Mormon..

Anti-Mormons do not like the designation of Anti-Mormon and quite often I have anti-Mormons tell me that "They aren't an Anti-Mormon, they are Anti-Mormonism".

Now I don't know if that is how they truly view themselves or that is an indication of their education. For claiming that oneself is "Anti-Mormonism" is like someone claiming they are "Mormonism".. Obviously it's poor grammar, for a person doesn't represent the whole of  Anti-Mormonism any more than a single individual represents the whole of Mormonism.   The individual that engages in Anti-Mormonism, is an Anti-Mormon.

As an example I recall one discussion I had with an Anti-Mormon named Paul Derengowski who consistently denied he was an "anti-Mormon" and yet posted the following statement on in our discussion on CARM.. 

"I am however staunchly opposed to EVERYTHING the Mormon faith advocates and stands for."




I don't know a better expression of an Anti-Mormon than that one, and yet they don't like the term applied to them. More about Paul can be found on this news clip




Bigotry has much the same phenomenon that drug addicts and alcoholics suffer from.. they too don't like to be called an addict or an alcoholic, yet the term often accurately describes the behavior of the individual.

Anti-Mormonism is more than merely not believing in the LDS faith.  Like Mormonism itself which engages in an active set of beliefs, Anti-Mormonism is actively engaged in activities against the LDS Faith.  Such activities often include creation of Web sites such as CARM that actively publish materials that are explicitly challenging the LDS fatih.   Or canvasing LDS sites and facilities with the express purpose of engaging in arguments with LDS and perspective LDS patrons.

Perhaps the first thing Anti-Mormons could do is to acknowledge that they are in fact behaving in such a manner.  Own up to the what they are all about I say..